Hi Eric, thanks for your comment. The Greek word for "inspiration," (theopneustos) in the New Testament has implications for inerrancy and the authority of scripture. If she does, how? ** Allows others to call them “leader?”, And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: I also note that those who are the most zealous about Biblical inerrancy also seem to know the least about the Scriptures themselves! One of the biggest problems is that the clergy has dropped the ball on addressing these issues on a regular basis. And people are so convinced that they are right and often have very clever sounding arguments to defend their foolishness. […] 6 Warning Signs Your Church Culture is Toxic—Carey Nieuwhof […], […] 6 Warning Signs Your Church Culture is Toxic —Carey Nieuwhof […]. is a great resource to help clarify.... Christine C. Scott The foundational beliefs of the Bible are no longer preached. There wasn't anything divine about that effort. The narrative of Scripture does include sin and death and punishment and sacrifice. Sure there were always heretics—but they were identified as such. and “Those are slothful who, having it in their own power to provide themselves with proper proofs for the divine Scriptures from the Scriptures themselves, select only what contributes to their own pleasures.” (Ibid., 7.16). They're not your enemy. In regard to my view of Psalm 137, surely you, as someone who appealed to hermeneutics, understands that this is an Imprecatory Psalm, which has to do with justice toward God’s enemies. Has she learned Hebrew, Greek, etc. Today there is a growing number of progressive evangelicals with a high view of Scripture and the centrality of the cross. If you find yourself with these concerns, do not ignore them and hope that they will simply go away. Sin is Sin - A Duck is a Duck (See my previous posts on this thread to Tony on that subject). The churches that embrace "progressive" Christianity don't seem to realize they are dooming themselves to eventual irrelevance. Who is responsible when we yield to evil temptation? Peace. These are those times in America. We had worked with the legislature to enact a faithful monument celebrating the 10 commandments. Why Are the First Two Years of Marriage So Important? Sure, occasionally you need advice from a friend about how to approach a situation. They must firmly and lovingly reject such accommodation, confront those in error, and oppose falsehood within the This is how it was taught to Jesus, and how he taught it. To me this is advice from what is an equally poisonous consumer culture that infiltrated the North American evangelical church long ago. Contend through it, struggle with it, face it head on. I appreciate the path you are on and wish you well. What makes it seem that Bible-believing Christians aren't doing so is that we do not do so using Marxist categories, and liberal/progressive Christians do. CNLP 438: Pete Scazzero on Why MegaChurch Pastors (and Other Leaders) Fail and How to Sustain a Healthy Inner Life, CNLP Episode 437: Jennifer Kolari on How to Deal with Irrational People, Customers and Team Members, and the Superpower of the CALM Technique, How to Lead When You’re Facing Constant Loss and Continual Bad News, CNLP 436: Louie Giglio Weighs in on Church Online, What Separates Elite Leaders from Second Tier Leaders, and the Enemy in Your Head, 7 Steps to a Great Vacation: How to Take A Full Month Off Work (Without Cheating), CNLP 435: Jean Twenge on Rising Anxiety, Depression, Isolation and Smartphones in Gen Z, and What that Means for Them and for Leaders, CNLP 434: Steve Carter on Leaving Willow Creek, What Crisis Taught Him as a Millennial Leader, and Why Character Matters So Much. I enjoyed your conversation on the bad christian podcast. Sexual frequency predicts greater well-being, but more is not always better. . I don't believe I have said or written anything that suggests that I think the Bible is like the fourth member of the godhead. In the meantime, what are some signs of a toxic culture you see? Let's take a look at some of your personal blind spots you expose as you rail against progressive Christianity. In addition to the afterlife stories, there's the fact that most of Jesus' dealings are with social outcasts. Many of us evangelicals recognize in Christ's teaching a call to compassion and courageous witness to justice and to stand with the vulnerable and marginalized. Some are certainly heterodox, but not heresy. Your comment opens some “worm cans” that this post didn’t directly speak to, particularly eschatology, which isn’t a test for orthodoxy, and substitutionary atonement, which is a slightly different animal than penal satisfaction, which Anselm refined in the middle ages. A diluted gospel Waters down the blood becoming totally ineffective. Prior to the Bible being canonized Paul said to Timothy in 2 Timothy 3:16-17, All scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness so that the servant of God may be throughly equipped for every good work.We see that prior to cononizatin the Scriptures, where held in high esteem and believed to have been inspired by God. But this is blatantly incorrect from a historian's perspective. Hence, one cannot but receive what he reads in the Gospels, though written by the disciples, as though it were written by the very hand of the Lord Himself (Harmony of the Gospels, 1.35.54). I have changed to saying "the scriptures" the Chicago definition of inerrancy) and is based primarily on one verse in Timothy (2 Tim 3:16-17). I would also encourage you to refer to John 1 about what (who) the Word of God is and to also not make the mistake of the Pharisees by idolizing the law in holy scripture. Keeping secrets only plants seeds of distrust in a relationship. Or... You asked: "Or how about Deuteronomy 21 18-21 where it says your rebellious son should be killed?" And perhaps there is the biggest point. Thank you for this post Alisa. Your blog posts are easy to access and nice and quick to read. On that we agree. I liked your articles 8 things Jesus believed about scripture. I just think about all of this differently. But you’re likely responsible for some of it. Hi Ed, thanks for offering your thoughts here. This is NOT what God wants...wake up sheeple!!! There were different theories about inspiration. Namely, It means rejecting this world, repenting of your sin, and confessing Jesus as Lord and savior and putting your whole trust in his grace as a gift, not something you earn, It means believing in a triune God and in Christ's death and resurrection as the way that we can repair the relationship to God. Kris, I’m so glad you’re here and I hope you will stick around and keep seeking…, You are very respectful and courteous, thank you for that. Selah. A story of mind control, the Apocalypse, and modest attire. Elizabeth Esther grew up in love with Jesus but in fear of daily spankings (to “break her will”). I Just thought I would offer my thoughts to the conversation as I think it is important to point out that negative experiences with the far far right can catapult people to the far far left. Our website is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. And these are not isolated comments, they were taught weekly. Christians have always sought to obey the commands of Scripture regarding the weak, poor, powerless, and oppressed. The longer I lead, the more I use Galatians 5: 16-23 as a health check for me personally and for anything I lead. (Hint: she doesn't and can't.). Thankful to report that our church scored 0/5. Do NOT be called leaders; for “ONE” is your Leader, that is, Christ. Your sin or President Donald Trump's sin (He is a sinner) can not be "squared" by any human means. Finally, a shortcoming of this view that resonates with the first point addressed by this article is that simply equating inspiration with the bible without further reasoning and treating it as a book dropped from heaven fails to recognize God's very deliberate choice to use humans in the process of writing scripture. Rarely is the problem really the problem. “If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - ITS A DUCK.” No matter how far the rabbit hole goes - the Bible calls it all sin. I appreciate your help! More than this, they must be willing to stand against those within the church who would silence the Christian voice through compromise. Lust births sin, sin births death (interestingly there are no stillbirths when it comes to sin). We are under grace and must be "BORN AGAIN". These are beliefs that have been upheld by Christians for 2,000 years. I don't lock women in flammable factories, but I buy clothes that may have been made by such women. But this is what makes the gospel so beautiful and important—there is forgiveness and new life for all who repent and put their faith in Jesus. Trying to resolve conflict by gossiping about the person you’re angry with is like trying to extinguish a fire with jet fuel. Alisa's post was not about progressive politics nor was it about Donald Trump. Hello Tinus, We must not have any idols but serve God alone. Let's call it labeling rather than name-calling. Many people lead, but very few become apex leaders. Through detailed research and observation, this book identifies the ten most common practices among more than 307 qualities identified. It only inflames things. You don't like so-called "progressive Christianity" so you're warning your readers about wh. But for some in the progressive camp, it may feel dismissive. If not, how do you decide what scriptures to obey and which ones not to? The alternative,as you seem to suggest, would be to say that God's Word must be amended or rejected because humans can use it improperly. Cameron, I agree, although I would not say the only thing. Your questions have been asked across the centuries, in one form or another. Carly Snyder, MD is a reproductive and perinatal psychiatrist who combines traditional psychiatry with integrative medicine-based treatments. There are some Progressive Christians who say they affirm doctrines like biblical inspiration, inerrancy, and authority, but they have to do linguistic gymnastics to make those words mean what, He clarified months later what he meantâthat the Bible is inspired, There is no doubt that the Bible commands us to take care of the unfortunate and defend those who are oppressed. For example,(1). By doing this, you've shown how unaware you are about the vibrant interpretive lives these texts have lived over the course of the past 2k+ years. The younger generation is going to look at things more objectively and not just believe what they are told to believe. The deceptions are intense (and possibly even God-sent, if 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 applies in our day). I am truly envious of those who can live this life. I also find that evangelicals seem to be much more influenced by Paul's interpretation of Jesus than by Jesus himself. The author is more than a little narrow in her thinking. I think Jesus had himself at least one rather racist moment (Matt 15:26) and had his fair share of theological "bad hair days" (Mark 15:34). It's about YOU doing it yourself out of love. Or is it a bit toxic? Plus, we are under the New Covenant now (Romans 12:17-19.) Again, nothing against her. I was actually able to express the heart behind it in this interview on the Bad Christian Podcast. Holds no water, no one, other than perhaps yourself, believes the Bible is a magical source of ultimate divinity. Besides, he once fell in love in me 10 years ago and refuse giving me a wedding to me an my husband. I love you and you will live with me in Heaven no matter how you live, because I love you." So, again, I must ask you about authority. The work of Christianity is done - Jesus himself proclaimed "It is finished". And when that happens, everything dissolves. As far as calling the Scriptures the "Word of God," I call them that because that's what Jesus called them. Though you may confide in your family and friends, it's usually not to the same extent as with your partner. I strongly believe that genuine revelation has continued to enlighten God's people. When we speak of liberation, we must do so as God does, and not as Marxist Liberation Theology. You say that Alisa should know her historical context but I have to question whether you do? If you read the Scriptures honestly, there is great sacrifice required--mentally, physically and socially. Part of shaping a healthy culture is being aware of the signs of toxic culture and the signs of health. We don't stop eating fish. [12] And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. She was so mad. " I'm happy there are people in the faith (label them progressive christians or however else you like) who have the audacity to confront their doubts head on, and adapt as need be, as has been happening since the time of Acts. We who have chosen to submit our lives and wills to God did not do so because all our questions were sufficiently answered. Or how about something really basic-- what are the books in the Old Testament? Thanks for taking the time to respond. The term "Progressive Christianity" seems to me to be an oxymoron. Gottman JM. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. And why list off "warning signs" about Progressive Christianity if you're not tacitly railing against it? These we assert to have been our teachers, who use nothing from their own human conception, but from the gift vouchsafed to them by God alone.” (Justin’s Hortatory Oration to the Greeks, p. 8). Labels divide...best leave them to the politicians. Such exclusivity creates instances in which organizations 'select' who they help based on if they adhere to bibilical doctrine, which is not what Jesus did. The pope is historical christianity. For man, it is a miracle beyond comprehension. Alternatively, you could read the work of James Kugel, which would help to break you free from the shackles of the hardline Evangelicalism you espouse here. Jesus then argued that this meant it was equally legal to heal on the Sabbath. And I agree with one of the previous comments, that robust and intellegent discussion about the issues you address are very necessary. . After a year of waiting, building and renovating, Mrs. The same Pastor for 37 of those years. This pamphlet briefly looks at many of the reasons that Christianity is undesirable from both a personal and a social point of view. I'm a little puzzled by your statement. Anyway, props to you recognizing a lot of these "modern" claims as being regurgitated trash from a few centuries ago. That every Christian movement has had its flaws as well as its revelations. Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; A 5 Step Guide on How to Create An Amazing Church Culture - Carey Nieuwhof, Links to Go (March 21, 2016) | Tim Archer's Kitchen of Half-Baked Thoughts, Weekly Roundup: March 20, 2016 | Healthy Theology, Weekend Edition—March 18, 2016 – The Reformed Post, Divine Gospel Radio – Weekend Edition—March 18, 2016, Weekend Edition—March 18, 2016 - Gospel X. No doubt that humanity is seeking truth of some sort, but we keep moving from truth to truth to another truth to something else to another version of whatever interpretation of the "nth" edition of someone else's views that centered on something from the past that a church leader grabs as being a "new" revelation or a "new" message for the modern Christian, and it is so confusing to Christians from all churches and backgrounds and relationships. Job 32:21 KJV, In my experience… So true! I respectfully stepped back and told them I will not part take of or speak a watering down of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Running to another church might not be what God wants, because loving one another in church makes us His disciples. If anything, such understanding exponentially strengthens Christianity in the world. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11:18-19 that divisions within a church are necessary "in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized." However, deliberately keeping secrets—say, you had dinner alone with a co-worker who finds you attractive, casually hung out with an ex, or bought the expensive shoes you said you wouldn’t— is a clear warning sign that your relationship may be in trouble. It doesn't really explain why the bible is authoritative, save by pulling out the so called "faith-card," (although there are great reasons why it is authoritative, if you are interested, I recommend "A High View of Scripture?" We can rationalize gossip. They brought his life down to a human level, like he was one of the good ole boys. When someone misappropriates the “Title/Position”… We know these things to be plainly delineated in the language of scripture and we know that if one were to obey what Yahweh commanded in the Old Testament today, would make one an immoral human being. Has your church ever stopped to ask its members how they are participants in systems of oppression and injustice? Death (Thanatos) in James 1:15 means “separation”. But no, Jesus went out of his way to rub the noses of the religious authorities in his flaunting of the law! This book is a call to put down our Magic 8-Balls and pick up God’s Word. It’s a call to get wisdom, follow Christ, be holy, and live freely. To just do something. Hyper-spiritual approaches to finding God’s will don’t work. Amos 5, as just *one* example). I hope you find it helpful: When Paul refers to the scriptures he uses lower case. Even if they don’t, the fact that they could speaks volumes. Given that Paul never actually met the earthly Jesus, and that he seems to have had only passing awareness of what Jesus actually taught (e.g. Where would I find Christ's commands to "fight for the oppressed"? Another red flag: You realize that you would rather spend time with anyone but your partner. The early Christians certainly faced being a part of "systems of oppression and injustice," with 90% of the Roman Empire being slaves. . and when that is joined to outward temptation, there is a birth -- a birth of the act, a birth of sin. Alisa Childers explains the Dangers of Progressive Christian Thought (Bad Christian Podcast) http://www.alisachilders.com/blog/the-danger-of-progressive-christian-thought-bad-christian-podcast-interview-with-alisa-childers So the question of authoritative interpretation is a prescient one. If you think I'm exaggerating, here is an article by a children's pastor in a progressive church here in town. Then there is the occasional - we are all going to heaven. And fwiw I think you need to define the "historical claims of Christianity" which you believe progressives deny? You cannot simply read the bible and, presto, you understand everything. Without Christ there is no basis objective basis for social justice. Own all you can. It seems to suggest that what he said was more authoritative than the scriptures. It makes the canonization almost as important as the resurrection. Church fights shouldn’t be. You should really read the rest of the New Testament…. I therefore shy away from dogmatic statements that only lead to dispute because there are others who have a different interpretation. Tom Franklin. Stephen, Excellent Matthew! 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. I completely agree with you that our beliefs should never be delivered in a mean or vengeful spirit. We seem to want to make it applicable to our day and time instead of transforming our lives in compliance with scripture. Prohibition of homosexuality, is an ancient purity code taken right from Mosaic law and the divine commands of Yahweh to Moses. Lust is going to bring forth something. Want to know what’s wrong most of the time? 1. Who is Alisa Childers and what gives her the authority to determine what the authoritative form of Christianity looks like? That’s kind of my whole point. I deeply, deeply appreciate your generous reply. After all, Jesus dined with prostitutes, etc." Hell is a literal place of punishment for those who reject Jesus (2) Salvation is by faith in Jesus and (3) We are all sinners in need of a savior who shed his sinless blood (4) literal creation (5) Return of Jesus could be any day. For instance... While it is not God, it reveals Him--just as nature is not God, but reveals Him. There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band , [2] A devout man , and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. I am disappointed in articles like this one that desire to bring the faithful back into line by name calling and blaming. I accept the Scriptures for what they are. (Although sometimes "logos" can mean the written Word as well.) When a “Titled” pastor/leader/reverend… Your blog here is very good. As I've reread the post and comments, there seem to be different weights of authority placed on scripture based on how we perceive its inspiration, authorship, and canonization. Then you proceeded to speak for them with your quotes. There are many reasons for blaming others, God or the Devil or even temptation itself - but if we are going to point a finger - Biblically - it should come back to our own selves. The opposite of "orthodox" is "unorthodox" or "heresy." Regarding Jesus telling the man to pick up his mat—He didn't break the law.. he broke the Pharisees unbiblical traditions. To demonstrate how his new wine was bound to burst old wine skins. In essence, while she might not say it like this, the Sola Scriptura faith. And we believe in pursuing justice, freedom, and peace. However, if outright heresy is being preached from the pulpit, or the Word of God is being denied, I can't think of any biblical reason to stay. Which part of historical ... it's an a la carte. Sadly, I can confidently say that they are not gross mischaracterizations at all. But if you’re dishing out more criticisms than compliments, you’re headed for trouble. But the article has little to do with Progressive Christianity itself. When that happens, it essentially pits one selfish person or group against others. Many of the objections found in the comments here are answered in these 3 podcasts I've done since the publishing of this article. In Isaiah 1:17 God commanded the Israelites to “seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow’s cause.” Zechariah 7:10 says, “Do not oppress the widow, the fatherless, the sojourner, or the poor.” In Malachi 3:5, we learn that God will judge those who “oppress the hired worker in his wages.” There are New Testament references as well. I praise God for the ministry of those fundamentalist churches, but that kind of church is not for me, and I would not be comfortable there. Have you read any of my other blog posts? In fact, His only command was to love everyone. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Very well put and I agree wholeheartedly. Hey! Verywell Mind's content is for informational and educational purposes only. Jesus brought love, but he also brought a cross. In regard to "hearing something new," none of this is new. Christianity is not "progressive" or "conservative" as we understand these words today. If you aren't in church " every time the doors are open" (4 days a week) then you are in sin and God will not answer your prayers. Perhaps instead of advocating for increasing the schismatic tendency of the body of Christ, the author could have prayed the prayer of Christ for all believers: "I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me." This is an important perspective that is not unsignificant. As opposed to the previous point, a lack of arguing can also signal a huge problem. I'm not trying to rock the boat, it's just crazy to think about and for me at least, the resurrection isn't needed to acknowledge that something phenomenal happened 2000 years ago with this dude born in a manger. Php 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, I hope that your studies do you well, but a small piece of advice that I hope you take to heart is this, your arrogance will lose every debate you engage in, regardless of how great your knowledge may be. You advocate something that is quite clearly, universally regarded as immoral -- I.e. Seems everybody's got an opinion. The Life and Words of the Lord Jesus are as important as His Death. No, but it’s a great integrity check, and I try to live by it. A final sign your church is toxic is that no one takes responsibility. But if the healthy arguments have stopped, it could be a sign that one or both of you has given up. Here is a book as joyous and painful, as mysterious and memorable, as childhood itself. Hi friends, thanks for all the comments. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. So, while your blog was well-meaning, I feel it missed the mark by characterizing all of progressive Christianity by a single sample. Sure, I don't love that the music is not traditional hymns, and I thought it might be too "progressive " for me at first, but i have never heard any of the teachings you described. It’s not about exploring the heart of the Progressive movement—it’s about helping people who are being confused and hurt by it. Even the Catholic church since Vatican II recognized the bible as a book of faith and not of science or history. If you some day get such a shock to the system that you can no longer see a loving God in the one you've been taught sentences most people to hell, polices all bedrooms, and demanded the blood of his own son because he just couldn't let a single bad deed go unpunished...Maybe you will be able to see with new eyes what your progressive friends were trying to say... There's an Ancient Christian Commentary series you could get into, which would begin to provide you with some of the breadth of interpretive possibilities for the biblical text. Iranaeus: “The Scriptures are indeed perfect, since they were spoken by the Word of God [Christ] and His Spirit; but we, inasmuch as we are inferior to, and later in existence than, the Word of God and is Spirit, are on that very account destitute of the knowledge of His mysteries.” (Against Heresies 2.28.2).
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